Curse

Clord · Dec 18, 2006, 12:01 AM // 00:01

GW is diffirent from WoW etc. They actually code engine improvements so game is not so outdated. Basically when GW does enough well they possibly even do major model updates to GW etc.

Myria · Dec 18, 2006, 12:06 AM // 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

It's [Guild Wars] just too big just to drop it, ArenaNet is going to make everything they can to keep the game alive.

In the end I doubt it'll be up to Anet, it'll be NCSoft that decides to pull the plug whenever they do. According to this month's Game Informer, GW was 14% of NCSoft's last quarter sales. Not exactly what I'd call "too big". Presumably the foray into China is an attempt to increase that percentage, how that goes may well decide the future.

penguo · Dec 18, 2006, 12:17 AM // 00:17

WoW is standing still at 7million.

That would explain how when I bought World Of Warcraft I got at least 10 other people to get the game? This is happening all over the world, and say what you think but WoW is gaining more. In my opinion Guildwars will last a few more years, because it's not holding that many people in my guild's interest. More games are comeing into the market too including Aion and Tabula Rasa, and it will be hard for Guildwars to keep up.

BoredJoe · Dec 18, 2006, 12:22 AM // 00:22

If A.Net can maintain/create the GW brand I'd imagine new players will be attracted to it each year replacing the ones leaving. The no fee business model may mean that GW is only viable by slowly sucking in new players and spitting out tired, weary, older players, i.e. not relying on a core base of veteran players.

A.Net could have estimated the number of players in the younger age bracket (14-18?) coming of age in the world each year with internet access. Of those a certain percentage will try online games and GW. In that case if they need Z new players a year to sustain their business, all they need to do is make GW available to a population of sufficient size to generate Z new GW players annually.

Personally I think player churn will be good for the game as the sheer weight of skills and professions in use may become too much, e.g a team needs skills from too many previous chapters to be able to complete the elite mission. If only the skills from the last 4-5 chapters are in use by players, and if good ones are released on a regular basis (maybe clones of older ones) the number of useful skills may not be overwhelming to newer players. Maybe A.Net is right in not trying to sustain/entertain a veteran player base with access to eventually thousands of skills. Maybe they are right in not increasing storage as it keeps veteran players and newer players on an "even" footing. Just looking at this forum, you can see the churn of people, yet it's still quite active.

I was surprised they made 3 million sales, so who knows. The no fee business model will attract a lot of new ppl and releasing self-contained, fun chapters, though all the same, may be a sensible business decision in the end.

natuxatu · Dec 18, 2006, 12:39 AM // 00:39

I hope they stop soon honestly. I love Guild Wars but would LOVE for the team to focus on a little more classic type of mmorpg with a much larger PvE world to explore. They could even use the Charr and Tengu and whatever else.. but they should change the name..

.. anyway i know that probably wont happen, but that's my wish.

tomcruisejr · Dec 18, 2006, 01:39 AM // 01:39

as long as there's the loyal fans that are buying the chapters, i doubt a.net will stop making future versions of GW.

look at nintendo's Mario. He's still here despite of his age. maybe because fans and also new ones are still buying.

gasmaskman · Dec 18, 2006, 01:53 AM // 01:53

I believe that within 2-3+ chapters PvE will start to fall off the earth. PvP (specifically GvG) will probably keep this game afloat for 5+ MORE games, as in what other game is there MMORPG PvP as simple, yet as deep and rewarding, as Guild Wars'?

I also think Anet should sell "skill packs" like 400 skills or so (a few for each class) instead of offering anything else, maybe for lile $15.

Myria · Dec 18, 2006, 01:59 AM // 01:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by gasmaskman

PvP (specifically GvG) will probably keep this game afloat for 5+ games, as in what other game is there MMORPG PvP as simple, yet as deep and rewarding, as Guild Wars'?

If PvP could support the game there would be no PvE. PvP is cheap and easy to produce, the players generate the bulk of the content. PvE is difficult and expensive to produce, but you have to have it because it's what pays the bills.

Quid Pro Quo · Dec 18, 2006, 04:09 AM // 04:09

I'd say 4 more chapters until Guild Wars 2 where they actually have an engine that can let characters.. jump and such. Original Guild Wars will still run for a bit after that but eventually it will die off.

SamGad · Dec 18, 2006, 04:23 AM // 04:23

They dont need a guildwars two...
I'm sure I recall reading somewhere that cause of how GW is they can update and change anything they see fit.
So if they decide they need a new GFX engine for chapter four they'll just render all the old chapters in it too...
could last for a while if things to get to repetative...
I think they need to drop the large numbers of more powerful monsters is better than smarter AI theory...

Tendaran Fenris · Dec 18, 2006, 04:29 AM // 04:29

A lot of you speak like you know what the whole community has to say. Your guilds and friends are not the only people who make up GW. You may be a "doomsayer" as some people like to call them, but the truth of the matter is, most of you don't know what's going on in the big picture. As long as there are people to buy GW, it will stay alive, or that's how it's supposed to works.

Symeon · Dec 18, 2006, 09:05 AM // 09:05

Guild Wars' business model means that much of ANet's focus is directed at attracting new players.

While veterans are likely of a certain value to ANet as they buy new chapters and make up much of the 'elite' population, the experience of these players often gets the better of them. They get bored with the inevitable repetitiveness of Guild Wars chapters, and either spew their negative thoughts onto forums or, if they are less devoted, simply find another game.

With no monthly fees, Guild Wars relies on Chapter sales, and the arrival of new players makes up a large proportion of these sales. As veterans get tired and leave, they are replaced by fresh, eager newbies.

In all honesty, I expect that if ANet wanted to, they could keep Guild Wars going for a few more years with Chapters full of the same old stuff, relying completely on new players as the veteran population burns to ashes. Eventually, they would just run out of momentum as the 'veteran new players' would also get tired, and Chapter production would come to a halt.

If ANet truly wants to keep the franchise alive for a longer period, then they definitely need to focus on maintaining a certain balance. While veteran players become bored with repetitiveness in each chapter, too much innovativity will throw them off; unless a major change in gameplay makes great improvements over what went before, it will be disliked by many and players will complain that they preferred the old ways. The developers can't win either way and so the best thing they can do is keep a balance between new and old. If they pull this off successfully with each new Chapter, then Guild Wars could survive for 5+ years in my view. In the end everything that could possibly be new will be used up. But ANet will probably not die at that point - it could go on to make bigger, better things.

Don't forget, ANet can consistently update the graphics engine (not forever, but for quite some time), so the game won't necessarily be left behind in technological terms.

And of course, external factors have a big impact on Guild Wars' survival. Firstly, ANet is owned by NCsoft, therefore the decision to pull the plug on Guild Wars could likely be made by someone higher up for simple business reasons. Then, there's the wide MMO market out there, that Guild Wars players will be drawn away to. Much of Guild Wars' ability to survive hinges on the attraction of no monthly fees. Other games may come in to compete.

So again, if ANet can maintain the balance between new and old, then I think Guild Wars may survive for 5+ years from now. It depends on that balance, getting plenty of new sales, but also on NCsoft and the MMO market. And then ANet can always move on to something else.

Riotgear · Dec 18, 2006, 09:24 AM // 09:24

How long did it take for Everquest to settle down and just make a sequel?

It's hard to say what'll happen with Guild Wars, as they may just keep piling new stuff into the game. I have a feeling they'll make a change of direction before they stop making the game.

The problem with GW right now it's that it's three chapters long and they're all separate. Most MMORPGs when they get this big sell the game for $50 with all of the expansions. The MSRP on the first GW is still $50, and getting all three is $150.

So yeah, you can start the game with only one entry, but it's harder to stay competitive, especially in PvP, with one chapter worth of skills. $150 is a very discouraging barrier to entry, even without a monthly fee. Even not getting all three, it's becoming more and more difficult to make a viable build without AT LEAST two campaigns worth of skills.

The other problem is that things become harder to balance as more skills and especially more classes are added. It's much easier for some ridiculously strong skill to come to the foreground for the next several months.

So my predictions: Next chapter will be skills with no new classes. The one after will change course in some way.

RTSFirebat · Dec 18, 2006, 09:36 AM // 09:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clord

GW is diffirent from WoW etc. They actually code engine improvements so game is not so outdated. Basically when GW does enough well they possibly even do major model updates to GW etc.

Correct, GW and WoW are two different kinds of game complete. They can be compared, but they not the same.

Wish people would just stop the whole GW vs WoW debate.

Quid Pro Quo · Dec 18, 2006, 09:39 AM // 09:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamGad

They dont need a guildwars two...
I'm sure I recall reading somewhere that cause of how GW is they can update and change anything they see fit.
So if they decide they need a new GFX engine for chapter four they'll just render all the old chapters in it too...

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Symeon

Don't forget, ANet can consistently update the graphics engine (not forever, but for quite some time), so the game won't necessarily be left behind in technological terms.

Who cares about the graphics? Such things as adding a y-axis to the game which would allow jumping are far above the current far outdated engine. They would have to completely remake large parts of the engine to add it and honestly they might as well make a new engine then. There are many, many things this engine can just not realistically do currently. This goes far beyond graphics which aren't the issue here.

Many companys decide to seperate the games when they make a new engine because it gives them the opportunity to make many more changes.

Riotgear · Dec 18, 2006, 09:47 AM // 09:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quid Pro Quo

They would have to completely remake large parts of the engine to add it.

World of Warcraft is adding flight, which will only be available in the expansion. The same idea can be applied. Might be somewhat quirky, but jumping could potentially be added as a feature only available in and beyond the chapter it's implemented.

There's also the possibility that it may simply not be implemented. GW's mechanics tend to be very streamlined, and while jumping may improve immersion, would it be particularly neccessary in most cases? Does the game really suffer from it?

Quid Pro Quo · Dec 18, 2006, 09:53 AM // 09:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

World of Warcraft is adding flight, which will only be available in the expansion. The same idea can be applied. Might be somewhat quirky, but jumping could potentially be added as a feature only available in and beyond the chapter it's implemented.

There's also the possibility that it may simply not be implemented. GW's mechanics tend to be very streamlined, and while jumping may improve immersion, would it be particularly neccessary in most cases? Does the game really suffer from it?

First off the WoW engine is completely different and already had a y-axis. Second jumping is just an example of the limitations. There are many more but they are harder to explain and not as intresting or useful to talk about.

I mean the engine even has trouble adding a new row to storage.

Heres something to think about. Imagine Kuunavang actualy soaring high into the sky and shooting down to attack you. You could be picked up and thrown a short distance and there could even be traps in the game where you would fall. This is all impossible currently without a rediculous ammount of scripting an animations.

Riotgear · Dec 18, 2006, 10:05 AM // 10:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quid Pro Quo

First off the WoW engine is completely different and already had a y-axis.

I realize that. The biggest barrier to adding new features like that into a game is integrating them into existing content without everything blowing up. I'm using WoW as an example of how that can be worked around.

Quote:

Heres something to think about. Imagine Kuunavang actualy soaring high into the sky and shooting down to attack you. You could be picked up and thrown a short distance and there could even be traps in the game where you would fall. This is all impossible currently without a rediculous ammount of scripting an animations.

Like I said, right now, the game mechanics are very streamlined. The only mechanics added by Nightfall were chants, echoes and scythe attacks. Every other new skill was based on conditions, effects, and mechanics which already existed.

That can easily be seen as a "feature" as much as a limitation. It certainly makes balancing things easier, and limits the potential for glitched encounters (which WoW has had its fair share of).

arcanemacabre · Dec 18, 2006, 10:10 AM // 10:10

I agree with Quid Pro Quo. The engine itself is just outdated, and without a seriously large amount of work, cannot get certain upgrades to the past chapters.

What I could see possible is having a sequel, with the upgraded engine, with an option to 'import' your prequel characters (ie our current characters), with skills/armor/etc in-tact. How your character works would essentially be the same, just with new abilities in a new engine (like jumping). This might include an 'export' feature as well in order to go back to the prequel. It's a lot of coding, I'm sure, but a whole lot less than redoing all of chapters 1-3 in a new engine.

The Silver Star · Dec 18, 2006, 10:54 AM // 10:54

Quicker than it would have since they destroyed main game types like Heroes Ascent for PvP players and farming and chest running etc for PvE players the game will die much sooner. Probably within 2 years. Then there might be a GW:2